New Creatures in Christ.

Where to begin? 

Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

What does this mean? I had never read this scripture and took it for it's full meaning. A heart is good, right? What does it mean, "who can know it?" Can I not trust my feelings? After all.. feelings are a firm rooted grasp on Testimony! Without feelings from the heart how can we gain a spiritual testimony with the warm feeling that comes with it? Nothing bad can come from basing truth on feelings....right? But "The heart is deceitful above all things,..." Does that mean it can be deceived? 

Bible scripture was always so hard for me to understand because of the 8th article of faith "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God." Which parts are translated "correctly" and which parts are we to cast off? Joseph Smith re-translated the Bible so what he has written in his "Inspired Version" will be okay to take for face value. My mother gave an Inspired Version Bible to my  Husband back in 1993.  I will check and make sure it's the same as the King James Version then will know It's okay scripture to use. So, what else does the bible say about Hearts (Feelings) 

Proverbs 28:26 - "He who trusts in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered." 
...... umm.. Okaaaay. So If I trust what my heart tells me I'm a fool but if I seek wisdom I will be delivered.

Proverbs 14:12 - "There is a way that seems right to man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
.....It may seem right to myself and my mortal mind, but contradicts scripture? That's not good.

Jeremiah 10:23 -"O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps"
 ..... So I need to seek the Lord to direct my steps and not men or myself.

What about Saul of Tarsus? He thought he was doing what was right in Acts 26:9 "I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth."

What does the Book Of Mormon say about feelings? 

Moroni 10:4-5 "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.."
 
What's the Holy Ghost (Spirit) Defined as?
Dictionary.com  noun: 
the third person of the Trinity.

Theopedia.com: 
The Holy Spirit is the name of the third person in the Trinity, sometimes called the Holy Ghost. Jesus promised the Apostles that he would send the Holy Spirit after his crucifixion and resurrection:
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. (John 14:26, ESV) In Christian theology the study of the Holy Spirit is called pneumatology, from two Greek words, pneuma meaning "wind," "breath," or "spirit" and logos meaning "word," or "logic." Generally this includes such topics as the personality of the Spirit, the deity of the Spirit, and the work of the Spirit as presented in the Bible.

LDS.org:  
The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a personage of spirit, without a body of flesh and bones. He is often referred to as the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, or the Comforter.

 How do you know the Holy Ghost/Spirit has answered your Prayers?: 

LDS view:
"A person may feel the Holy Ghost in many different ways, called the fruits of the spirit and the still small voice. The Holy Ghost enters our mind and heart, which anyone can hear, but one must receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost for it to linger with them always. "Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart. Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" (D&C 8:2-3.)"


 Biblical View:
I had more trouble finding a biblical reference to the Holy Ghost/Spirit answering our prayers. The nearest thing I could find was where he "Guides in truth". John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." The Holy Spirit can't testify of things that the Bible has warned of. Namely, trusting your heart/feelings when it comes to truth.

The Bible is warning about following your feelings but the Book of Mormon and D&C are encouraging it? Which do I follow? Which do I hold fast to? What can I trust? 

God rebukes religious division and contradictions. Yet division is inevitable if we follow our feelings, because feelings vary so much from person to person and from time to time.
Following feelings to guide us in religion results in division, but God condemns division. Therefore, God does not want us to follow our feelings in religion!

 Paul States in 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 
10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"


1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 
........Who is the author of confusion then? Who would want to create division? Satan.

John 17:20-21
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 

Ephesians 4:3-6
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Galatians 5:19-21

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

How easy it is to lead a people a stray after convincing them Gods Word (Bible) is not reliable. What better way to cause division, confusion and contention. After convincing a people Gods Word is not reliable he can then get them to believe anything he wants.

Gods Word has been preserved and is whole as he promised! Jesus, himself stated in Mathew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." 
Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."  
Isaiah 30:8 "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:" 
 2 John 2 " For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever."

..........

My entire religious testimony on Mormonism has been a "Burning of the bosom". A Manifestation of a  Holy Ghost (Familiar Spirit?) in fervent prayer wanting truth. I NEEDED to know the answer and was given that answer through a strong overwhelming emotional feeling. According to the Bible (Gods Word) we are warned of such "testimonies". There must be wisdom in our learning or we can be lead astray by Satan. But Satan can't bring a feeling of peace.. can he?... (What is a Familiar Spirit??)  

Brian also received a "Burning of the Bosom" in the polygamy Church concerning polygamy and himself living it. He looked for another wife. I looked for a sister wife. We wanted it to be blessed from God. We both grew up in families that fell apart, ending in divorce, because of polygamy, and wanted our family to stay together, forever, and be blessed of God. We never found the other Women, for good reason. This is the same feeling he received while needing to find out who the True Prophet is that had all the "Keys" of the Priesthood.  If the Holy Spirit/Ghost can only testify of truth, how can it manifest as an answer for something that is wrong? Was it the "Holy Spirit" or a "Familiar Spirit"? What does the Bible say about Familiar Spirits?

Leviticus 19:31
31 "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God."

Isaiah 19:3
3 "And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards." 
........So, familiar spirits are in the same category as Idols, Charmers and Wizards..... Not good.
Look up "Familiar Spirits" in the bible. None of them are good. The one sighting I was familiar with was Isaiah 29:1-4 that is sighted as a prophecy of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. After deeper study I found it has been taken out of context for this interpretation.

We all know Satan is a deceiver, liar, and counterfeiter. Everyone knows that Satan and evil may inspire feelings like anger, hate, etc. So why can't they inspire us to feel sure certain doctrines are true, when really they are not true?

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
"13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
  
2 Corinthians 11:3  "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

.............

Which now brings us to question something I dare not question before. You don't speak evil against the "Lords Anointed". I'm not going to speak against him. I'm going to question. How would we know who the Lords anointed is without testing them?  Knowing I can trust certain things in the Bible, I can now take many things as truth and apply them . I had many questions in Polygamy and brought them with me even after joining the LDS Faith but couldn't ask them because of certain things we were told never to question or seek after. We didn't want to brake the "rules", so we faithfully followed. Growing up in Polygamy, I knew many things about Church history that many LDS members, including Bishops and Stake Presidents, had no idea about or would have rather not been bothered with. Having asked some questions when we were first members and kind of being brushed off or given answers that made no sense, we just put the questions back on the shelf where they sat for a very long time, knowing they would be answered, in time. Occasionally, we would look over at what had accumulated on our "shelf" and study up here and there, N.E.V.E.R touching anything that wasn't Official Church Doctrine. Over time,"Official" Church Doctrine started to change and we could no longer use what was considered earlier, "official". To say we got frustrated was an understatement, so much so that we left it all alone. Until recently when we read Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

It's time to embrace Thessalonians. 

1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

We are told to Prove or Test everything. Since most of my Questions had to deal with Joseph Smith and things he did or taught we will put him to the Biblical Test. (What I am going to mention is a very small fraction of the questions Brian and I had. I will compile our full list of questions at a later time.)  

Deuteronomy 13:1-4
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Deuteronomy 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him"

What were the things that Joseph Smith spoke through prophesy, in the name of the LORD. Did they all come to pass as the Bible Prophets Prophecies have? There are may "Prophecies" where he spoke in the name of the LORD and it did not come to pass but I will only mention 3. Remember, it clearly states, Deuteronomy 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him"

MORMON DEBTS WILL BE PAID: April 23, 1834. D&C 104: 78-83. God's promise to deliver the Saints from their debts. "It is my will that you shall pay all your debts." The Lord will soften the hearts of their creditors.

 Joseph Smith and others had to flee Kirtland to avoid their creditors, leaving debts of thousands of dollars unpaid. Joseph Smith ended up having to file bankruptcy.

US GOVERNMENT WILL BE DESTROYED: May 18, 1843. HC 5:394, also Mill Star 22:455. Joseph Smith prophesies "by virtue of the holy priesthood... and in the name of the Lord" that if Congress or the United States will not redress the wrongs which the Mormons suffered in Missouri, and grant them protection, "the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted," they shall be "broken up as a government" and there will be nothing left of them. (A similar prophecy was made Dec 16, 1843. See Quinn p 641, Chron JS 189)

The United States rejected the Mormons' petitions; their wrongs were not redressed; they were not protected from their enemies. The United States government was never overthrown and is still in existence. 

CITY OF ZARAHEMLA, IOWA: March 1841. D&C 125:1-4. Revelation directing the Mormons to build a city called Zarahemla in Iowa, across the river from Nauvoo.

No such city was ever built. 

Which ones of these, that were spoken in the name if the LORD, are okay to not come to pass according to Deuteronomy 18:20-22

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

It doesn't state that he's mortal and will make mistakes. It's very clear in it states "If the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath NOT spoken, but the Prophet hath spoken it presumptuously..." . It even states in Verse 20, "..even that prophet shall die." I would be so careful if I was a prophet to make sure what I was saying was from the LORD. I would NOT want that responsibility on my shoulders knowing if it didn't come to pass I would be in such trouble. Joseph, on the other hand, had a new "revelation" every time someone had a question. The "Word of Wisdom" came about because of Emma. She got tired of cleaning up tobacco juice after meetings because the men would miss the spittoon. We knew this while we were members of the polygamy group.

Brigham Young, the second President of the Church, made the following statements concerning the conditions that led to the giving of the Word of Wisdom:  

"I think I am as well acquainted with the circumstances which led to the giving of the Word of Wisdom as any man in the Church, although I was not present at the time to witness them. The first school of the prophets was held in a small room situated over the Prophet Joseph's kitchen,... When they assembled together in this room after breakfast, the first they did was to light their pipes, and, while smoking, talk about the great things of the kingdom, and spit all over the room, and as soon as the pipe was out of their mouths a large chew of tobacco would then be taken. Often when the Prophet entered the room to give the school instructions he would find himself in a cloud of tobacco smoke. This, and the complaints of his wife at having to clean so filthy a floor, made the Prophet think upon the matter, and he inquired of the Lord relating to the conduct of the Elders in using tobacco, and the revelation known as the Word of Wisdom was the result of his inquiry." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 12,p. 158)

The "Shelf" that had all of our unanswered questions on, for 20 years, came toppling down. Everything we questioned or had problems with had an answer. The very thing we thought was the foundation of our "religion" came crashing down. Joseph Smith was NOT a prophet. 

..........................................

August 19th 2012 we were asked to speak in Sacrament Meeting before we moved the very next Wednesday. Brian, Myself and Our oldest son, Corey. We were a typical Mormon Family. Paying our tithing and fast offerings faithfully. Fulfilling our callings to the best of our ability. Making it to all of our church meetings. Teaching our children, having FHE (Family Home evening) as regularly as we could with Brian working out of town. Attending the Temple when it was possible. Keeping the word of Wisdom. Holding current Temple Recommends and going when we could. Reading the Scriptures, continually learning and everything else good Mormons do to be good LDS people. That same evening, August 19th 2012,  Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" jumped into our lives.  We knew, without any doubts, of the deception of Satan by Tuesday evening the 21st of August 2012. I didn't have a whole lot of time to read and study as I was also packing up our family of 9 to move that Wednesday afternoon. Every time I had a moment to stop packing and attend to the needs of my other children I would just sob so I did my best to stay busy. 

After moving and unpacking some, we pulled our 3 oldest children aside. We sat them down and explained what had happened. Talked with them about the facts and our findings and answered their questions. We told them our stance and asked them if they still wanted to attend the LDS church we would understand and support them. All 3 didn't want to have anything to do with it. Our Oldest, to the surprise of myself and my husband came to an intimate relationship with his Savior and came to know him that very next Sunday. (What can I say about my Precious Son. He loves Truth and gobbles up scripture. Once he knew he could take what the bible says for face value, he basked in it!) He's not the same child I knew back in August! He is literally a New Creature in Christ. It shows in his actions, his attitude and his countenance. Praise Jesus for taking away the burdens that have weighed him down for years. Our Oldest Daughter had a harder time. She kept thinking about all her wonderful friends in our old neighborhood. How she loves them all wishes she could testify to them of the truth. She is also a new Creature in Christ. Jesus has taken away her burdens as well.  

Mathew 11:28 has changed our entire family. "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." 

Before finding my Savior I was burdened down with anxiety, depression, anger, frustration and grief. My dear sweet husband came to a knowledge of Jesus, the Savior of the Bible, and accepted him when he was 18 while in the Polygamous group. Donna Bonnie and Alice, Sunday school teachers, were teaching from the New Testament. He will tell you of his experience if you want to hear it but he's not been the same person since then. He will be the first to tell you any good through him is because of Jesus and God. He would tell me, when I was at the point of ending it all to "Give it to Jesus.. He is the grand physician and will remove it all." I was so frustrated. I would pray and plead every day. I would attend the temple and sit in the celestial room to find peace. I would immerse myself in scripture and study the Book Of Mormon and other LDS scriptures. I would get angry at my husband when he told me I needed to pray harder and give it to Jesus.. I WAS TRYING! I wanted him to take it all! I was burdened down every day and wanted to cast it off! The only reason I am still here on this Earth right now, is my children. I couldn't imagine them growing up without their Mother. I was so distraught and started thinking how I would be justified in talking my own life being how mentally unstable I was. God knew my heart and knew how much I was going through. The days I knew I might do something, I would not get in the car alone. Images of  pulling in front of an oncoming semi heading to or from the gravel pits near our home would run over and over in my mind. I would play church music and sing along with Hymns to try and remove them. I would keep busy and not allow myself what I so desperately wanted to do, to make it all stop. The constant knot in my throat and anxiety attacks were just part of my normal life. Diet changes and Essential oils helped some days, but parts of it were still there. Not a day went by where I didn't think about the abuse I went through as a child. Not a day went by where I didn't think about justice. Not a day went by where I didn't think about my rotten childhood. 

The day I accepted Jesus and my Savior was just another day, so I thought. I learned who the Biblical Jesus was. Realized how I didn't know Jesus at all and the LDS version of Jesus is a watered down version of him. 


This is NOT my Jesus!
LDS: "He is literally our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the Pre-existence. Jesus, Lucifer, angels and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters.
Gospel Principles, p. 11, 17, 18 

Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven. The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ...so he is literally our elder brother.... We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, "Whom shall I send?" ... Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said "Here am I, send me".... Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, "Behold, here am I, send me." ... After hearing both sons speak, Heavenly Father said, "I will send the first." ... Because our Heavenly Father chose Jesus Christ to be our Savior, Satan became angry and rebelled."

 THIS is my Jesus!!
BIBLE: "Jesus is fully God, not a subordinate deity. He eternally exists as God and is our creator."

Isaiah 9:6 
 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
John 8:58 
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
1 Timothy 3:16 
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Hebrews 13:8 
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
John 1:1-4, 14 
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Colossians 1:16-17 
For by him [Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

My Jesus saves by GRACE!  Not By works. Good Works follow the believer. Not working to be saved.
Salvation is not limited to universal resurrection but is a gift from God to those who believe.

Romans 1:16 
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Hebrews 9:28 
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9 
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

One week after accepting the real Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I had to stop and reflect. Something was different. Brian noticed it. My kids noticed it and now I did. It had been a full week since I had to use my Essential oils to ward off anxiety. Depression was no where to be found. This was HUGE! I never did well with change and we just went through some HUGE change with the move. Not to mention our entire life had been turned upside down.. Or better yet, turned right side UP. 

The only change in my life was I knew who my Savior was and accepted him. I didn't ask him to take all my burdens and set me free, but that's what happened. He took it all and lifted the burdens that had been weighting me down for a very long time and made me a new Creature in Christ! I was Born again! Praise Jesus! Thank you God! To this day, I don't have the right words to express my gratitude! 

I am a sinner. I am not perfect and will never be perfect by my own doing. The Biblical Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior made me perfect through him. I Love him because he loved me first, even though I was flawed, broken and a sinner. He loved me first. I came to him as a broken, unworthy sinner and he accepted me. He didn't turn me away and tell me to come back when I made myself as perfect as I possibly could so he could fill in the missing parts. He accepted me as I was and made me whole. I repeat, He didn't turn me away and withhold his Glory from me, the sinner, because I wasn't perfect. He took me as I was. I am a follower of the Biblical Jesus. A member of the Body of Christ. There is nothing we can do to earn our salvation. When Jesus was on the cross and said "It is finished" it was finished. He gave us the gift of Grace. It is a gift, not to be purchased, but accepted.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."  Believe in him! 

1 Corinthians 1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

Brian and I didn't leave the LDS church because we were offended in any way. We didn't leave because we made some grievous sin.We didn't leave because we were pressured by anyone. We left because we love our God, Savior, Jesus Christ and want to follow him in all of his truths. God is so wonderful. His timing is perfect! I do know had he brought that scripture to us any sooner we would have over looked it, or any later we may have rejected it. As it is, he is at the helm and knows Brian and I more then I had ever thought he did. 

We have such a deep love for everyone in our previous neighborhood and Wards that we shared the last 9 years. We love our dear sweet Stake President Ronald Edwards and his precious Wife, Julie. As well as Bishop Cecil Tuley and his sweet wife Judy. Not to mention all of our wonderful Neighbors. We wanted to tell you all in our own due time, but my sweet Sister, Misty, called our Stake President to tell him what had happened and, no doubt, ask him for advice and help to try and stop us from making any rash decisions. She also told a friend she made while living with us in her Spanish ward who in turn told Holly S. (My long Visiting Teaching companion, Visiting Teacher and dear sweet friend) who called to ask Sheryl R, since she knew we were close, who called me to get it straight from the source. (Love that you dislike gossip and always goes to the source. Thank you for the phone call) Holly did call me and we had a nice chat but didn't mention anything of what I now know she already knew. (Love you, Holly) I don't know how far it's gone from there, but knowing these 2 women so well, it's not gone far through them. 

Brian and I want you all to know how much we love you all. Friends and Family alike We have not turned our back on God. Quite the contrary, have found him as well as our Savior, Jesus Christ and accepted him as the one and only way to Saving Grace. We would urge you to find the Savior. No one can tell you, you are "Saved". You will know. No one can stand between you and your Savior. You don't have to go through your Bishop, Stake President or even Joseph Smith. There is no "middle man" when it comes to Salvation. Come as you are. Accept his precious Gift of Grace. It's not by "Works" we are saved. It's is Grace, and Grace alone. 

Ephesians 2:8-9 
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 6:28-29
"28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."..... Spoken by Jesus to his disciples when they asked about the "Works" God requires.


Isaiah 64:6 
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags;and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Love you all and hope to hear from anyone that may have questions to ask us. We hope to keep what friendships we had and keep in contact with you. We hold no ill will toward anyone but we are prepared to be persecuted for Jesus and what we hold dear. 

Mathew 10:32-39

"32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it."

We plead with you to find Jesus Christ. Don't find yourself being cast out like in Matthew 7:21-23
 "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." 

God Bless you all! 
To all Friends and Family. If you feel to tell someone our Family is no longer LDS or we left the church, please don't leave them with that information alone. The question of "Why?" will undoubtedly enter their mind. Please link them to this blog or tell them to search out "Daley Journey to truth" on BlogSpot. We all have our own story and they have the right to have their Why question answered even if they feel they can't talk with us.

 

 

Salt Lake Temple. June 25th 1999

Waking up bright and early. Getting our precious family in the car and driving from Riverton Utah to Salt Lake City. We enter the Salt Lake Temple for the very first time with our entire family, including our 3rd child I am pregnant with.

We drop Corey and Cerena off with the Temple Matrons and are lead back to get dressed into our Temple clothing. They escort us into the Celestial room where we wait and bask in the beautiful spirit. Sitting next to one another, holding hands, soaking in the beauty, waiting to be escorted to a sealing room.

This very day, one of my biggest fears will be put to rest. The day I gained a testimony of the Prophet of the church, is also the day I realized my husband and I were not sealed, with the proper authority, for time and all eternity. If something were to happen to one of us we would have to have our work done for us. Our children were not sealed to us, so we would have had to have that done as well. It weighted heavily on my heart. I wanted to make sure, our family would be sealed for ever! I didn't want to rely on someone else to do that for us. This day, that weight would be lifted from my shoulders!

As Brian and I kneeled across from one another at the alter, holding hands, the tears flowed. This man, who I promised to be with forever, would now be my forever companion, for the first time, 4 Years to the day we were married! We fell in love all over again!

Then the matrons brought our precious children in to us and set them on top of the alter. Seeing them dressed in white was one of the most beautiful sights. We were sealed together as a family. There was not a dry eye in the room as many in the room knew exactly of our journey and shared in our joy!

I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the one and only true church on the earth. I know that Thomas S. Monson is a true prophet of the Lord who holds all of the Authority to the Priesthood. I have a Testimony of Prayer. I could not have asked for more clear answers through prayer. I know my Savior loves me, died for me and I know, through him, all of my sins will be forgiven, if I but repent and give them to him. I have a testimony of the Book of Mormon. I Know that Joseph Smith, with the inspiration of our Heavenly Father, translated the Gold Plates to give us the record of the people who came to the Americas, lived in Americas and even those, who got to see the Savior, after his resurrection, in the Americas. I have a Testimony of Temple work for the dead through proxy as well as the work we do for ourselves. I know, if you take the time to pray, with a sincere heart, wanting to know truth without an agenda, the Lord will answer you!

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Update 11-9-12

Excuse me as I remove my foot from my mouth and wipe the egg from my face. I was deceived. I was wrong. I was misinformed because I chose to research a few topics and not the foundation of the LDS church. I relied on my "Burning of the Bosom", knowledge lacking testimonies instead of the Word of God. I chose to be ignorant of the Bible and it's warnings. After much study and learning how the Bible we now have came to us, I know now my God kept his word and preserved his words to our day and his words will be preserved forever. My God cannot Lie and has kept his promises.

Ohh dear. The things that weighed heavily on my heart while trying to save myself through the "Works" I thought were required to make it back to God. The "Works" that I did to save myself and my ancestors.. so they could make it back to God. How foolish I was. Thinking that God dwells in the Temples here on Earth?

Acts 7:48-49 
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,  
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Not to mention the fact about trying to save myself... doing all the works I can, to pay for a Gift that can't be bought. If I can do it all and save myself by becoming perfect ...or even work my way to 1,000th of the way and have the Savior fill in the rest.. what need do I have of a Savior in the first place? My works are nothing! I can do nothing to earn salvation. You don't earn a gift. You accept it. 

Ephesians 2:8-9 
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast
  
My "works" are nothing. I am a sinner. I cannot be perfect by my own doing.. It's against human nature because of the fall of Adam. God knows this. All he asks is we accept and know our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Through him we become perfect in him. He dwells in those who accept his Gift. Good works follow the believer.  We are changed and become a new creature in Christ, who saves us.... We must repent of our Righteousness!! 

Isaiah 64:6 
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags;and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 

Covenants Received!

Our date to take out our Endowments is June 24th 1999. We schedule to take them out in the Manti, Utah Temple. We chose this temple because they have live sessions. In the Group they had a live session of their own so we wanted to experience a live session for our own personal reasons.

We drove to Manti with Brian's Sister and Brother in Law Becky and Sam. The day before we attended the Manti Pageant and toured the town. Stayed in a hotel room and awoke bright and early to be the first couple to attend the session.

Walking into the temple, feeling the peace and calm of wonderful surroundings. The attendants escorted us back to speak to the Temple presidency. I could feel angels pass us in the hall and was so overcome with joy that tears filled my eyes! We were then escorted back to change into white clothing to prepare for the session.

It was wonderful, so full of meaning and feeling that many times during the session I couldn't help but cry. Feeling the love and truth of everything was more then I could have ever hoped to feel. Toward the end, when my husband lead me into the Celestial Room, there was not a dry eye in the room. Total strangers that went through the session with us were crying. Temple patrons were in tears as well as our wonderful Friends and Family that were able to attend with us. Entering the Celestial Room was as if we entered Heaven itself! I wanted to dwell in that room forever!

My beautiful box was no longer empty but was now full and overflowing!

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Updated 11-9-12
My box was so full of feeling. So full of what I needed to feel. So full of what I wanted to feel...and so full of deception.

There are things missing from this ceremony that were in the Polygamy ceremony. Things I later questioned my Bishop who then sent me to the Stake President. His answer to our questions about the penalty's that were removed?  The Lord saw that they weren't needed anymore so they were removed. Why were they not needed? Why were they removed? What kinds of penalties did the Lord require now if they were broken? (They were pretty grotesque and part of me was glad they were removed  but I still questioned why the change?) Does God change things for the comfort of his children? Why did he not change the Law of Moses to conform more to the comfort of the Jews? That would mean his word is ever changing instead of never changing. The LDS church believes in a Church that is ever changing. It doesn't matter what one prophet before them taught.. When that prophet passes away it's almsot as if most everything they said it null and void when the current Prophet makes a statement that contradicts the last. One generation of Mormons believes one thing and the next believes another.. There teachings don't match and it's confusion. Old time Ensign use to be the Journals of Discourses.. but it's not official Doctrine anymore. It's Null and Void. So what if one prophet use to teach that the only way to enter the Celestial Kingdom is by living the Plurality of wives?  That went away with The manifesto and the Prophet Wilford Woodruff. The Most recent.. and I know it's silly... but Gordon B Hinckley said that faithful members of the church don't drink Coke... but now it's okay to drink Coke. Did God conform to mans weakness because they were already doing it?

More Preparation.

We are now members of the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. For the first time in my life I know where I belong. . The peace that fills me is indescribable. I feel I'm home.

We now need to wait a year before we can enter the Temple to take out our endowments and be sealed as an eternal family. Taking this journey with my best friend and Husband was such a blessing. Having this man, whom I chose to be with forever is now with me, on the same path.

We received our Temporary Temple recommends and entered the Temple to do Baptisms for the dead at least 2-3 times a month. Feeling the presents of those who had been waiting to get their work done, their excitement, gratitude, and joy was sometimes overwhelming and other days sparse.

It was a rough year, full of temptations and doubts. Not of our faith but of my worthiness to be sealed to such a wonderful man for eternity! I made some choices that caused me to have to put our date on hold, but with some help from my husband and lots of prayer, I was able to overcome the problems and continue.

By this time, I am now expecting our 3rd child, Andrew. He will be our first child that will be born under the covenant into our Eternally Sealed Family! My due date will be 6 weeks before his birth from our Sealing date.

Baptism

The day had finally arrived!! June 3rd 1998! Brian and I were going to be entering the waters of baptism! One, to be cleansed of all of our sins and two, to become Members of the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-Day Saints!

We didn't have many family members there but we did have LOTS of our Ward family attend! I didn't know what to expect as my first 2 experiences with baptism were empty. No feeling and no meaning. Empty shells. I wasn't looking for another because I know, in my heart, that this is where the Truth was. This is what I needed to do.. and to have my husband with me while we both were baptized this day was wonderful!! I didn't want to do this without him by my side!

The font was filled but it was too full so someone let the water out and walked away letting it almost completely empty. They had to fill it again but there was no more hot water. When I walked down into the water it was so cold. When the time came to be placed under the water and brought back up, I felt a cloak of warmth surround me as I walked out of the water. I didn't notice the cold anymore, all I felt was warmth and love. Walked up out of the faunt and went into the dressing room to get dressed. I cried! Tears of joy!

Elder Wirthlin

The day finally came for us 2 months later. We were asked to go and meet with one of the 12 apostles. We are actually going to go and speak with one of the 12 who will then decide if we will be approved to be baptized. It was Elder Wirthlin. Brian and I went to the building and waited in his receptionists room. The spirit in that room... in that building was wonderful. We basked in it!!

I was called to go into his office first. He motioned for me to sit in the chair and he went straight to the point and asked me "Why do you want to join the church?" Between the spirit in his office and the words that leaped my lips, I could not hold back the flood of emotions and tears! My answer? "Because the church is TRUE! I can't deny that, or will I ever deny it!" I was sobbing almost uncontrolled when he said. Good Answer! He shook my hand and said. "What an honor to have such a strong testimony! Welcome to the Church!" He escorted me out and motioned for Brian to enter.

While I was in the office Brian was talking to the receptionist. He asked if she was aware of the spirit in his office. She nodded and he asked if she ever gets use to it. She said that she guesses she does.

We left the offices totally on cloud 9! We then set our baptism date for June 3rd 1998.

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Update 11-9-12
A man, being chosen to decide whether or not we can be forgiven of our Sins and be baptized and become members of a church. I guess it makes sense because it is the church of Men... If it truly was Jesus Christs Church then Jesus would decide. 

Patience and Perseverance.

Our papers were placed on the desk of an apostle who was out of the country. Elder Wirthlin was in charge of all members wanting to join the church from backgrounds like ours. Becky W. called to try to find out our status as it was taking a very long time. Brian and I waited patiently.

We were attending church, loving the companionship and support from everyone. I was compiling a binder with all of the information I had found that helped me see the truth. Scripture references, Talks from both sides, letters as well as church archive time lines. It helped pass the time as well as helped me help my sister, Misty, and all of her questions.

The day told my family we were joining the church my sis had so many questions. She was so full of anger and resentment toward me and Brian. I don't know what mom was telling her about us but it couldn't have been good. I finally told her that I wasn't going to talk to her about any of it till she prayed for peace and understanding. The spirit of contention was so thick she wasn't going to listen to anything I told her. 3 days later she came over and told me she prayed and wanted to know what I know. Something told her she needed to join the church as well. She slowly came to the truth and joined the church. It was a long hard road for her. The church has a policy that requires the person being baptized to not be living with a parent with the background of ours. She was still living with mom at the young age of 14, wanted to be baptized more then anything and not being able to be. She hung though, stayed firm in her faith, went to church every week as well as all of her young women meetings and was finally given the yes to be baptized at 17 years old. What a wonderful day that was!!

Telling the family

We called Mom over to announce that we were joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Mom, Misty (Youngest sister from another father), Jason (Youngest Brother from another father) and Mark (Youngest brother from my Same father) attended. Mom didn't take it really well. In her mind, Brian and I were apostatizing. Misty was really confused and asked question after question.. But we will go into her story later.

I thought Mom was going to have a heart attack right there. She started rambling things off about how could we do such things. How she didn't teach her children right... etc... It wasn't till about a week later that she called to let us know that she prayed about us and said that she was given a confirmation that the Church is where Brian and I needed to be, at this time, to learn the "Fundamental Principles of the gospel" and then we would again Rejoin the "Priesthood" again. I didn't want to argue with her so we left it at that. We had no intentions of leaving to go back. Not with the knowledge and truths God had given us.

I don't remember how Brian's Mother (Who was still living in our basement at the time) took it. But Her Daughters Mary and Becky had already joined the church. Now it was Brian and I. We didn't tell many others because of what we saw Becky and Sam go though. We didn't wish to become targets in any way!

Missionaries, Church and Stake President!

We knew what we needed to do next! How do you get a hold of the missionaries? We are ready to start our conversion process! We started to go to church the next Sunday and started flying through the missionary discussions! Lesson on top of lesson! We had questions that they couldn't answer but were willing to find them with us.

We were raised to not partake of the Sacrament till you were baptized... so I was NOT going to partake till I was able to be baptized. That first Sunday came and I didn't partake. I watched Mothers give it to their children. Children not of age yet partake.. but I didn't and felt so very empty. That week I prayed, studied and asked questions. The next Sunday came around, I still had not been given an answer. I prayed about what I should do. When the bread came to me, it was a leap of faith. I Partook and was filled with so much warmth! It was the right thing! I had never felt this way after partaking. It was a new WONDERFUL feeling! Later that Sunday, a scripture that Christ said in Mathew 19:14 became even more clear in my mind and heart! "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Why would he not permit the most precious and pure of us all to partake of his ordinances?

We talked with our bishop and asked questions he couldn't answer so he sent us to the Stake President. Some of those questions were about blacks and the priesthood, the garments that were given to us and the protection they provided, Authority, Adam God Doctrine/Theory.. and so much more! Not every question was answered that left peace and understanding. 

We were now preparing to join the church! The papers had been filled out in March and we were ready to be baptized! We still had a long wait ahead of us!

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Update 11-9-12
Here it is, yet again. Warmth followed by no clear knowledgeable answer.

The drive home

We stayed and talked with Becky W and her Husband for a little over an hour. We then headed home.

All the way home we talked about the church and what we needed to do next. In "The Group" we were given a garment to wear day and night. Brian has had some spiritual and Physical blessings connect to that piece of clothing. It has protected him physically from harm, more then once. How could those covenants he made to Heavenly Father be void and how could that garment that he now wore be untrue? It DID Protect him!

When we got home we put the 2 younger children to bed and talked more. The questions were what do we do with the garments we were given? We made covenants and were not about to brake them! I had already resolved in my mind what I needed to do.. But I wasn't going to do it alone. We needed to do this together! As Husband and Wife! He would go into the bedroom to pray for an answer and would then come out with nothing. He did this 3 times. I felt to say. "Sweetheart? Have you not been given the answer already today? You know where the authority is, right? Were we then not given this garment without the proper authority?" It was a leap of faith for him. He took off this garments and immediately felt at peace!

I can't even describe the joy, support, love and understand that came over me knowing we were now on the same path together! Not all of our questions were answered, yet, but we knew what was right, in our hearts!

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Update 11-9-12
.....and all of our questions would NEVER get answered... until we realized where the truth actually was! 

Missionary Fireside

Brian is asking more questions and I try to answer them from what I've been learning the last 2 weeks. What I don't know, I call My SIL Becky and ask her.

Becky W. invited us to a Missionary Fireside the next Sunday and I agreed to go. Brian was hesitant. Elder Iring was going to be the speaker.

That Sunday we went to Church at "The Building". Brian was on board enough to refuse the Sacrament that day. Chuck Todd, one of the Elders passing the Sacrament went out of his way and made his way from the front of the room all the way to the back, were we were, to offer us the Sacrament. When we refused, he knew we were leaving.

I remember a Woman getting up to speak. Her subject was about how Joseph Smith was reincarnated and came back as some other Prophet.. Brian and I had to leave early to make it to the Missionary fireside and didn't get to hear her conclusion OR the Prophet get up and correct her when she was through. When we left, I was more convinced that the group was not true!

We made our way to Becky W's Ward house near MillCreak Canyon in Salt Lake. We stopped at Becky's house and carpooled to the Stake Center. We went into the Chapel and sat down. As we waited Becky and I spoke some. About the time it was getting ready to start a white backdrop started to come down from the Ceiling. It was going to be a Film.

Brian was not amused!! We were expecting to get to "See" and "Hear" a Member of the "12 Apostles" speak to us in the same room. Why not? We were always privileged to have our "Prophet" at church with us every week! I was a little disappointed myself but that quickly passed. Brian on the other hand was not going to have any part of it. He looked around at the construction of the building. The beams, the ceiling walls and thought about how it was constructed during the film. He looked over at me and noticed I was sobbing. The message was wonderful, spiritual, peaceful! Enough to bring tears to my eyes (These days it didn't take much)

Brian started to kick himself. Telling himself what a Jerk he was being for not even trying! He then started to pray in his mind, asking if Owen A Allred held the Keys.....Nothing. No answer like always. He then asked WHO? Gordon Hinckly's name popped into his head. He didn't say anything to me.

The Fireside ended and we went back to Becky's house. Her husband and her brought out some refreshments. (Key lime Pie and a drink) and we sat down. Brian didn't. He started to pace... then asked, Who is Gordon Hinckley? When they told him he started to pace even more!! I don't remember exactly what he said but it was almost like "I don't want to be a Mormon! But the answer I received makes it hard for me to deny where I need to go now!"

2 Weeks!! It had only been 2 weeks from when I received my Testimony!! It was the Longest 2 Weeks of my entire life!!

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Update 11-9-12
Yet another example of Satan's deception. Names planted into someones mind.  Along with this he also received a "Burning" he said ".....from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet it was a woosh of warmth" Where is the Knowledge that should have accompanied that?

The Hug!

The mood in the house is cold and dark. We don't talk. We don't even meet eye to eye anymore. I'm again in my room reading and Brian is playing his RPG. (Role Playing game online)We are expecting the nurse. The nurse that is coming to give Brian a physical and take his blood for the Life insurance. The doorbell rings and I hear him get up and answer the door, so I stay in my room with the door closed. 10, or so minutes later the doorbell rings again. I figure he's busy with the nurse and go answer the door. It's the Nurse!! So, who's in the computer room with Brian?? I look around the nurse and see Becky's Suburban parked in the driveway....

I show the Nurse in to the Kitchen, walk down the hall and gently knock on the closed Computer room door. Brian opens it and I see his sister, Becky. I meet Becky's eyes with a questioning look. Brian heads to the Kitchen and I talk quietly with Becky.

Becky and Brian are Best siblings. Becky could not go another day with Brian hating her so she came over to try and make amends.

Brian gets through with his Physical and we sign the papers. Brian then goes back into the computer room with his sister and I went back to my room, and sat on the floor by the door.

What's going on in there!! 20 Minutes passed. I tried to read and tried to think of other things but I wanted so much to know what was going on in that room! Something told me that it was Okay to go in. When I opened the door I saw Brian Hugging his sister, Becky Crying and Brian...He looked different.

He told me later that He had a hard heart. He was Angry! Angry at Becky, Me.. and everyone who was tearing his life apart! He wasn't listening to anything Becky tried to tell him in the room. He just sat there.. Angry! I'm not sure what lead up to the hug when I walked in but Brian said he didn't want to be angry at his sister anymore and let go of some of it to hug her. When he hugged her he felt a warmth and a peace. He was also confused how he could feel such peace, from his sister who was on the road to "Apostasy".

Visiting the Church Archives.

Time lines! This was really weighing on my mind! The group was founded by a man named Lorin Woolley. He was the Man that told of a Story about John Taylor being told by the Lord and Joseph Smith to keep Plural Marriage alive. If it weren't for him, and his "Stories" there would be no Group.

Lorin tells of an 8 hour meeting where John Taylor reportedly told some men about his experience with the Lord. If that never happened then it was all a lie. I had to find out for myself. The only place I could go were the Church archives and read people journals on Microfiche. Find out where they were during this meeting. In every single Journal I read.. none of the men were at the meeting on that day... Many of them were counties away. In one journal Entry I read something about Lorin Woolley and they even gave him a Nick Name. "Noisy" Lorin Woolley seemed to have had an ego problem even in his early years. The Centerville Fifth Ward Elders Quorum minutes, for instance, reveal that Lonn was the first to speak at quorum meetings and frequently dominated discussion. His self-evaluation as "Noisy," a nickname he picked up in his childhood, confirms this. In other journal entries he was known as a Lier. At Lorins Church trial in 1924, which resulted in his excommunication on a charge of "pernicious falsehood" where he claimed Heber C Kimball and taken 5 other wives and sealed them to already married men after the Manifesto.

I'll stop right there. Way to much information, it's making my head hurt as well. Needless to say, I kept running into contradicting stories.

One of the biggest discoveries for myself, was about Joseph and Hyrum Smith. The "Group" has a story that Joseph and Hyrums bodies were exhumed, placed in new caskets and brought to the Salt Lake Valley then buried on Temple square by Brigham Young in the fall of 1848. Lorin Woolley also has an account where Joseph appeared to him and shook his hand as well as Charles Wilcken. Joseph also appeared to John Tayor at the 8 hour meeting to lay his hands on his head to set him apart.

What I found in the Archives left me in tears.. It was THEN that I knew it was all a lie! This information can now be found online but I also have a hard copy printed out with pictures. This is what I found:


http://www.shields-research.org/Books/Polygamy_Story/LDS-Funde_Polygamy_Story-c10.htm
That Joseph and Hyrum were not resurrected in 1886 may be further borne out by the fact that the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints exhumed their bodies in 1928. Samuel O. Bennion, then President of the East Central States Mission, with three others, upon hearing about the exhumation, drove from In dependence to Nauvoo, and they arrived just after the bodies had been disinterred. He wrote in a report to President Heber J. Grant:

Fred(rick) M. (Smith, President of the Reorganized Church) took me upstairs where they were photographing and taking measurements of the skulls of Joseph and Hyrum. I could hardly keep the tears back when I saw these men handling these skulls like they were just common ordinary skulls and I said to Fred M. Why don't you let the bodies of these men rest where they were, it seemed a terrible thing to disturb their graves. He answered me, by saying that he wanted to find out if the graves of these men were down by what was called the Spring House and rather evasively avoided my question, but told me that he did not know exactly where they were buried and he wanted to find out. It is my impression brethren that he had heard reports that Brigham Young took the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum to Utah and that he wanted to prove it untrue. He did not mention that but in an indirect way he did. I said to him "Didn't your father tell you where these bodies were laid?" And he answered "Yes." I told him his father had told me where they were and that I was convinced that they were there close to the foot of Emma Smith's grave.

The lowe-r jaw of Hyrum Smith is just as near like the pictures of Hyrum as it could be. His jaw was very large and was quite square especially at the chin compared with Joseph's. Joseph's jaw was more pointed, but Hyrum's was a little more square all around than Joseph's. These men must have been big because their lower jaws were extra large and strong.

The bullet that killed Hyrum entered into his face near the lower part of his nose on the right side and broke his upper jaw just above the teeth. The break shows very distinctly where the bullet entered the face, because the bone was broken and the bullet went in an upward direction right under the eye and came out on the other side of his head, just a little above his ear and toward the front.

If Joseph's and Hyrum's bodies were exhumed in 1928, we may logically assume that they had not previously been resurrected. We may confidently conclude with Brigham Young: "When Joseph is resurrected, you may find the linen that enshrouded his body, but you will not find his body in the grave.".

Here are some links for those that want to learn more about the "8 hour meeting", Fundamentalism, And just General Information about the subject.

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Update  11-9-12
Why ohh why didn't I choose to dig a little bit deeper? I now understand a little more why the Archive worker was nervous about the materials I was asking to view. Why didn't I look deeper?

Along the road.....

As I was reading the scriptures I was really focusing on D&C 132. I had a testimony of Plural Marriage so.. if I know it was true how could I not live it? I was reading it word for word, verse by verse and studying each word. I was praying for clarity as I read it. I started to understand that this was given to Joseph Smith, directly! These were his Promises. HIS Tests. HIS blessings! Again! I learned that the "Group" was taking the scriptures out of context. Thankfully, Brian started seeing it too.

There were a lot of people "Studying" at this time and leaving the "Group". A lot of other people were asking questions and none were getting answers. Brian was on board...kind of.. and went to one of these classes with me. He had his own questions he needed answered as well. At these classes.. One thing Brian and I both noticed how they never actually answer the question. They would tell a story about so-n-so and his experience and literally dance all around the question, never answering it.

I was struggling with blacks and the priesthood. How Children were allowed to partake of the sacrament before they were baptized. The changing of the Garments over time and many other teachings that didn't match the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The group claimed to have the same pattern of the Garments that Adam and Eve wore. My Sister in Law has someone in her new ward that knew someone that had Hyrums Garments. The ones he wore when he was shot and was going to be at her ward one evening. I had to see with my own eyes. They were Red long underwear. NOTHING like what the group had. NOTHING!

Over time and through reading the scriptures, mainly the book of Mormon, all of my questions were answered and I realized that the others didn't matter! We joke about worrying about which side of the gate the hinge is on. The gate still opens up. Does it matter which side the hinge is on?

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Update 11-9-12

After Joining the LDS church I still struggled with the fact that a Loving God would deny his own "Children" his priesthood because of a color. Was he really that racist?  What of the 2nd Article of Faith? We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression... Why are they then being punished for something their ancestors did?

I still struggled with the garment changes, Temple ordinance changes, Why the LDS didn't teach earlier doctrine if the "prophet" that spoke it said it was a fundamental principle and one couldn't make it to the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom without it? Then one day, it was wiped out, removed, and didn't matter.  And ohhhh, don't bring up Adam God, Polygamy, Blood Atonement, Joseph Smiths many wives..let alone his 14 year old Brides and the women that were married already. Brigham Young and his many wives... and why many of the Prophets still lived Polygamy even after the Manifesto. (Yes.. these questions, and more are what I asked my Bishops and Stake presidents till I was finally threatened by one of my Stake presidents that "If you purse this course, you will be filled with the spirit of the Devil and fall away from the Restoration.")

I had way to many questions without answers but I decided to instead bury my head in the sand after the last threat from my Stake President, and set it all on the shelf.


Any religion that can't handle some straight forward questions and be able to give some straight forward answers to those questions must have a very unstable foundation or have a lot to hide.

D&C Chapter 6

I raised my hopes way to high! High enough to have them crash down, leaving me questioning. Did I really feel what I did? Did I really hear what I did? Was it all a figment of my imagination? Was it what I really wanted? I'm comfortable where I am. Why do I want to cause myself all this pain and worry? It's easier to stay where we are with Brian. No more fighting or Cold greetings.

I voiced these words to my friend, Becky W. She hugged me and gave me some scriptures of encouragement. I don't remember what they were but I do know they helped me while I was struggling.

I went home and said a prayer for some comfort and strength. I then felt to let my scriptures fall open. After the pages fell open my eyes fell upon this scripture.

Doctrine and Covenants Chapter 6 Verses 21-23
21 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I am the same that came unto mine own, and mine own received me not. I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.
22 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things.
23 Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?

Again, an answer from my Heavenly Father to bring peace and strength back into my heart! Received the strength to hang on longer and be patient with Brian.