Friday, October 19, 2012

New Creatures in Christ.

Where to begin? 

Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

What does this mean? I had never read this scripture and took it for it's full meaning. A heart is good, right? What does it mean, "who can know it?" Can I not trust my feelings? After all.. feelings are a firm rooted grasp on Testimony! Without feelings from the heart how can we gain a spiritual testimony with the warm feeling that comes with it? Nothing bad can come from basing truth on feelings....right? But "The heart is deceitful above all things,..." Does that mean it can be deceived? 


Bible scripture was always so hard for me to understand because of the 8th article of faith "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God." Which parts are translated "correctly" and which parts are we to cast off? Joseph Smith re-translated the Bible so what he has written in his "Inspired Version" will be okay to take for face value. My mother gave an Inspired Version Bible to my  Husband back in 1993.  I will check and make sure it's the same as the King James Version then will know It's okay scripture to use. So, what else does the bible say about Hearts (Feelings) 


Proverbs 28:26 - "He who trusts in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered." 

...... umm.. Okaaaay. So If I trust what my heart tells me I'm a fool but if I seek wisdom I will be delivered.

Proverbs 14:12 - "There is a way that seems right to man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

.....It may seem right to myself and my mortal mind, but contradicts scripture? That's not good.

Jeremiah 10:23 -"O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps"

 ..... So I need to seek the Lord to direct my steps and not men or myself.

What about Saul of Tarsus? He thought he was doing what was right in Acts 26:9 "I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth."


What does the Book Of Mormon say about feelings? 


Moroni 10:4-5 "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.."
 

What's the Holy Ghost (Spirit) Defined as?
Dictionary.com  noun
the third person of the Trinity.

Theopedia.com: 
The Holy Spirit is the name of the third person in the Trinity, sometimes called the Holy Ghost. Jesus promised the Apostles that he would send the Holy Spirit after his crucifixion and resurrection:
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. (John 14:26, ESV) In Christian theology the study of the Holy Spirit is called pneumatology, from two Greek words, pneuma meaning "wind," "breath," or "spirit" and logos meaning "word," or "logic." Generally this includes such topics as the personality of the Spirit, the deity of the Spirit, and the work of the Spirit as presented in the Bible.

LDS.org:  

The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a personage of spirit, without a body of flesh and bones. He is often referred to as the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, or the Comforter.

 How do you know the Holy Ghost/Spirit has answered your Prayers?: 


LDS view:

"A person may feel the Holy Ghost in many different ways, called the fruits of the spirit and the still small voice. The Holy Ghost enters our mind and heart, which anyone can hear, but one must receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost for it to linger with them always. "Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart. Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" (D&C 8:2-3.)"


 
Biblical View:
I had more trouble finding a biblical reference to the Holy Ghost/Spirit answering our prayers. The nearest thing I could find was where he "Guides in truth". John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." The Holy Spirit can't testify of things that the Bible has warned of. Namely, trusting your heart/feelings when it comes to truth.

The Bible is warning about following your feelings but the Book of Mormon and D&C are encouraging it? Which do I follow? Which do I hold fast to? What can I trust? 

God rebukes religious division and contradictions. Yet division is inevitable if we follow our feelings, because feelings vary so much from person to person and from time to time.

Following feelings to guide us in religion results in division, but God condemns division. Therefore, God does not want us to follow our feelings in religion!

 Paul States in 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 

10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"


1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 

........Who is the author of confusion then? Who would want to create division? Satan.

John 17:20-21

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 

Ephesians 4:3-6

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Galatians 5:19-21

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

How easy it is to lead a people a stray after convincing them Gods Word (Bible) is not reliable. What better way to cause division, confusion and contention. After convincing a people Gods Word is not reliable he can then get them to believe anything he wants.


Gods Word has been preserved and is whole as he promised! Jesus, himself stated in Mathew 24:35
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." 

Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."  
Isaiah 30:8 "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
 2 John 2 " For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever."

..........


My entire religious testimony on Mormonism has been a "Burning of the bosom". A Manifestation of a  Holy Ghost (Familiar Spirit?) in fervent prayer wanting truth. I NEEDED to know the answer and was given that answer through a strong overwhelming emotional feeling. According to the Bible (Gods Word) we are warned of such "testimonies". There must be wisdom in our learning or we can be lead astray by Satan. But Satan can't bring a feeling of peace.. can he?... (What is a Familiar Spirit??)  


Brian also received a "Burning of the Bosom" in the polygamy Church concerning polygamy and himself living it. He looked for another wife. I looked for a sister wife. We wanted it to be blessed from God. We both grew up in families that fell apart, ending in divorce, because of polygamy, and wanted our family to stay together, forever, and be blessed of God. We never found the other Women, for good reason. This is the same feeling he received while needing to find out who the True Prophet is that had all the "Keys" of the Priesthood.  If the Holy Spirit/Ghost can only testify of truth, how can it manifest as an answer for something that is wrong? Was it the "Holy Spirit" or a "Familiar Spirit"? What does the Bible say about Familiar Spirits?

Leviticus 19:31

31 "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God."

Isaiah 19:3
3 "And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards." 
........So, familiar spirits are in the same category as Idols, Charmers and Wizards..... Not good.
Look up "Familiar Spirits" in the bible. None of them are good. The one sighting I was familiar with was Isaiah 29:1-4 that is sighted as a prophecy of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. After deeper study I found it has been taken out of context for this interpretation.

We all know
Satan is a deceiver, liar, and counterfeiter. Everyone knows that Satan and evil may inspire feelings like anger, hate, etc. So why can't they inspire us to feel sure certain doctrines are true, when really they are not true?


2 Corinthians 11:13-15

"13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
  
2 Corinthians 11:3  "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

Matthew 24:24
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."


.............


Which now brings us to question something I dare not question before. You don't speak evil against the "Lords Anointed". I'm not going to speak against him. I'm going to question. How would we know who the Lords anointed is without testing them?  Knowing I can trust certain things in the Bible, I can now take many things as truth and apply them
. I had many questions in Polygamy and brought them with me even after joining the LDS Faith but couldn't ask them because of certain things we were told never to question or seek after. We didn't want to brake the "rules", so we faithfully followed. Growing up in Polygamy, I knew many things about Church history that many LDS members, including Bishops and Stake Presidents, had no idea about or would have rather not been bothered with. Having asked some questions when we were first members and kind of being brushed off or given answers that made no sense, we just put the questions back on the shelf where they sat for a very long time, knowing they would be answered, in time. Occasionally, we would look over at what had accumulated on our "shelf" and study up here and there, N.E.V.E.R touching anything that wasn't Official Church Doctrine. Over time,"Official" Church Doctrine started to change and we could no longer use what was considered earlier, "official". To say we got frustrated was an understatement, so much so that we left it all alone. Until recently when we read Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"


It's time to embrace Thessalonians. 


1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."


We are told to Prove or Test everything. Since most of my Questions had to deal with Joseph Smith and things he did or taught we will put him to the Biblical Test. (What I am going to mention is a very small fraction of the questions Brian and I had. I will compile our full list of questions at a later time.)  


Deuteronomy 13:1-4

1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Deuteronomy 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him"


What were the things that Joseph Smith spoke through prophesy, in the name of the LORD. Did they all come to pass as the Bible Prophets Prophecies have? There are may "Prophecies" where he spoke in the name of the LORD and it did not come to pass but I will only mention 3. Remember, it clearly states, Deuteronomy 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him"


MORMON DEBTS WILL BE PAID: April 23, 1834. D&C 104: 78-83. God's promise to deliver the Saints from their debts. "It is my will that you shall pay all your debts." The Lord will soften the hearts of their creditors.


 Joseph Smith and others had to flee Kirtland to avoid their creditors, leaving debts of thousands of dollars unpaid. Joseph Smith ended up having to file bankruptcy.


US GOVERNMENT WILL BE DESTROYED: May 18, 1843. HC 5:394, also Mill Star 22:455. Joseph Smith prophesies "by virtue of the holy priesthood... and in the name of the Lord" that if Congress or the United States will not redress the wrongs which the Mormons suffered in Missouri, and grant them protection, "the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted," they shall be "broken up as a government" and there will be nothing left of them. (A similar prophecy was made Dec 16, 1843. See Quinn p 641, Chron JS 189)


The United States rejected the Mormons' petitions; their wrongs were not redressed; they were not protected from their enemies. The United States government was never overthrown and is still in existence. 


CITY OF ZARAHEMLA, IOWA: March 1841. D&C 125:1-4. Revelation directing the Mormons to build a city called Zarahemla in Iowa, across the river from Nauvoo.


No such city was ever built. 


Which ones of these, that were spoken in the name if the LORD, are okay to not come to pass according to Deuteronomy 18:20-22


20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

It doesn't state that he's mortal and will make mistakes. It's very clear in it states "If the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath NOT spoken, but the Prophet hath spoken it presumptuously..."
. It even states in Verse 20, "..even that prophet shall die." I would be so careful if I was a prophet to make sure what I was saying was from the LORD. I would NOT want that responsibility on my shoulders knowing if it didn't come to pass I would be in such trouble. Joseph, on the other hand, had a new "revelation" every time someone had a question. The "Word of Wisdom" came about because of Emma. She got tired of cleaning up tobacco juice after meetings because the men would miss the spittoon. We knew this while we were members of the polygamy group.


Brigham Young, the second President of the Church, made the following statements concerning the conditions that led to the giving of the Word of Wisdom:
 


"I think I am as well acquainted with the circumstances which led to the giving of the Word of Wisdom as any man in the Church, although I was not present at the time to witness them. The first school of the prophets was held in a small room situated over the Prophet Joseph's kitchen,... When they assembled together in this room after breakfast, the first they did was to light their pipes, and, while smoking, talk about the great things of the kingdom, and spit all over the room, and as soon as the pipe was out of their mouths a large chew of tobacco would then be taken. Often when the Prophet entered the room to give the school instructions he would find himself in a cloud of tobacco smoke. This, and the complaints of his wife at having to clean so filthy a floor, made the Prophet think upon the matter, and he inquired of the Lord relating to the conduct of the Elders in using tobacco, and the revelation known as the Word of Wisdom was the result of his inquiry." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 12,p. 158)


The "Shelf" that had all of our unanswered questions on, for 20 years, came toppling down. Everything we questioned or had problems with had an answer. The very thing we thought was the foundation of our "religion" came crashing down. Joseph Smith was NOT a prophet. 

..........................................


August 19th 2012 we were asked to speak in Sacrament Meeting before we moved the very next Wednesday. Brian, Myself and Our oldest son, Corey. We were a typical Mormon Family. Paying our tithing and fast offerings faithfully. Fulfilling our callings to the best of our ability. Making it to all of our church meetings. Teaching our children, having FHE (Family Home evening) as regularly as we could with Brian working out of town. Attending the Temple when it was possible. Keeping the word of Wisdom. Holding current Temple Recommends and going when we could. Reading the Scriptures, continually learning and everything else good Mormons do to be good LDS people. That same evening, August 19th 2012, 
Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" jumped into our lives.  We knew, without any doubts, of the deception of Satan by Tuesday evening the 21st of August 2012. I didn't have a whole lot of time to read and study as I was also packing up our family of 9 to move that Wednesday afternoon. Every time I had a moment to stop packing and attend to the needs of my other children I would just sob so I did my best to stay busy. 


After moving and unpacking some, we pulled our 3 oldest children aside. We sat them down and explained what had happened.
Talked with them about the facts and our findings and answered their questions. We told them our stance and asked them if they still wanted to attend the LDS church we would understand and support them. All 3 didn't want to have anything to do with it. Our Oldest, to the surprise of myself and my husband came to an intimate relationship with his Savior and came to know him that very next Sunday. (What can I say about my Precious Son. He loves Truth and gobbles up scripture. Once he knew he could take what the bible says for face value, he basked in it!) He's not the same child I knew back in August! He is literally a New Creature in Christ. It shows in his actions, his attitude and his countenance. Praise Jesus for taking away the burdens that have weighed him down for years. Our Oldest Daughter had a harder time. She kept thinking about all her wonderful friends in our old neighborhood. How she loves them all wishes she could testify to them of the truth. She is also a new Creature in Christ. Jesus has taken away her burdens as well.  


Mathew 11:28 has changed our entire family. "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." 


Before finding my Savior I was burdened down with anxiety, depression, anger, frustration and grief. My dear sweet husband came to a knowledge of Jesus, the Savior of the Bible, and accepted him when he was 18 while in the Polygamous group. Donna Bonnie and Alice, Sunday school teachers, were teaching from the New Testament. He will tell you of his experience if you want to hear it but he's not been the same person since then. He will be the first to tell you any good through him is because of Jesus and God. He would tell me, when I was at the point of ending it all to "Give it to Jesus.. He is the grand physician and will remove it all." I was so frustrated. I would pray and plead every day. I would attend the temple and sit in the celestial room to find peace. I would immerse myself in scripture and study the Book Of Mormon and other LDS scriptures. I would get angry at my husband when he told me I needed to pray harder and give it to Jesus.. I WAS TRYING! I wanted him to take it all! I was burdened down every day and wanted to cast it off! The only reason I am still here on this Earth right now, is my children. I couldn't imagine them growing up without their Mother. I was so distraught and started thinking how I would be justified in talking my own life being how mentally unstable I was. God knew my heart and knew how much I was going through. The days I knew I might do something, I would not get in the car alone. Images of  pulling in front of an oncoming semi heading to or from the gravel pits near our home would run over and over in my mind. I would play church music and sing along with Hymns to try and remove them. I would keep busy and not allow myself what I so desperately wanted to do, to make it all stop. The constant knot in my throat and anxiety attacks were just part of my normal life. Diet changes and Essential oils helped some days, but parts of it were still there. Not a day went by where I didn't think about the abuse I went through as a child. Not a day went by where I didn't think about justice. Not a day went by where I didn't think about my rotten childhood. 


The day I accepted Jesus and my Savior was just another day, so I thought. I learned who the Biblical Jesus was. Realized how I didn't know Jesus at all and the LDS version of Jesus is a watered down version of him. 



This is NOT my Jesus!

LDS: "He is literally our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the Pre-existence. Jesus, Lucifer, angels and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters.
Gospel Principles, p. 11, 17, 18 

Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven. The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ...so he is literally our elder brother.... We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, "Whom shall I send?" ... Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said "Here am I, send me".... Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, "Behold, here am I, send me." ... After hearing both sons speak, Heavenly Father said, "I will send the first." ... Because our Heavenly Father chose Jesus Christ to be our Savior, Satan became angry and rebelled."


 THIS is my Jesus!!
BIBLE: "Jesus is fully God, not a subordinate deity. He eternally exists as God and is our creator."

Isaiah 9:6 

 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
John 8:58 
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
1 Timothy 3:16 
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Hebrews 13:8 
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
John 1:1-4, 14 
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Colossians 1:16-17 
For by him [Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

My Jesus saves by GRACE!  Not By works. Good Works follow the believer. Not working to be saved.

Salvation is not limited to universal resurrection but is a gift from God to those who believe.

Romans 1:16 

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Hebrews 9:28 
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9 
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

One week after accepting the real Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I had to stop and reflect. Something was different. Brian noticed it. My kids noticed it and now I did. It had been a full week since I had to use my Essential oils to ward off anxiety. Depression was no where to be found. This was HUGE! I never did well with change and we just went through some HUGE change with the move. Not to mention our entire life had been turned upside down.. Or better yet, turned right side UP. 


The only change in my life was I knew who my Savior was and accepted him. I didn't ask him to take all my burdens and set me free, but that's what happened. He took it all and lifted the burdens that had been weighting me down for a very long time and made me a new Creature in Christ! I was Born again! Praise Jesus! Thank you God! To this day, I don't have the right words to express my gratitude! 


I am a sinner. I am not perfect and will never be perfect by my own doing. The Biblical Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior made me perfect through him. I Love him because he loved me first, even though I was flawed, broken and a sinner. He loved me first. I came to him as a broken, unworthy sinner and he accepted me. He didn't turn me away and tell me to come back when I made myself as perfect as I possibly could so he could fill in the missing parts. He accepted me as I was and made me whole. I repeat, He didn't turn me away and withhold his Glory from me, the sinner, because I wasn't perfect. He took me as I was. I am a follower of the Biblical Jesus. A member of the Body of Christ. There is nothing we can do to earn our salvation. When Jesus was on the cross and said "It is finished" it was finished. He gave us the gift of Grace. It is a gift, not to be purchased, but accepted.


John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."  Believe in him! 


1 Corinthians 1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."


Brian and I didn't leave the LDS church because we were offended in any way. We didn't leave because we made some grievous sin.We didn't leave because we were pressured by anyone. We left because we love our God, Savior, Jesus Christ and want to follow him in all of his truths. God is so wonderful. His timing is perfect! I do know had he brought that scripture to us any sooner we would have over looked it, or any later we may have rejected it. As it is, he is at the helm and knows Brian and I more then I had ever thought he did. 


We have such a deep love for everyone in our previous neighborhood and Wards that we shared the last 9 years. We love our dear sweet Stake President Ronald Edwards and his precious Wife, Julie. As well as Bishop Cecil Tuley and his sweet wife Judy. Not to mention all of our wonderful Neighbors. We wanted to tell you all in our own due time, but my sweet Sister, Misty, called our Stake President to tell him what had happened and, no doubt, ask him for advice and help to try and stop us from making any rash decisions. She also told a friend she made while living with us in her Spanish ward who in turn told Holly S. (My long Visiting Teaching companion, Visiting Teacher and dear sweet friend) who called to ask Sheryl R, since she knew we were close, who called me to get it straight from the source. (Love that you dislike gossip and always goes to the source. Thank you for the phone call) Holly did call me and we had a nice chat but didn't mention anything of what I now know she already knew. (Love you, Holly) I don't know how far it's gone from there, but knowing these 2 women so well, it's not gone far through them. 


Brian and I want you all to know how much we love you all. Friends and Family alike We have not turned our back on God. Quite the contrary, have found him as well as our Savior, Jesus Christ and accepted him as the one and only way to Saving Grace. We would urge you to find the Savior. No one can tell you, you are "Saved". You will know. No one can stand between you and your Savior. You don't have to go through your Bishop, Stake President or even Joseph Smith. There is no "middle man" when it comes to Salvation. Come as you are. Accept his precious Gift of Grace. It's not by "Works" we are saved. It's is Grace, and Grace alone. 


Ephesians 2:8-9 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 6:28-29
"28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."..... Spoken by Jesus to his disciples when they asked about the "Works" God requires.


Isaiah 64:6 
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags;and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Love you all and hope to hear from anyone that may have questions to ask us. We hope to keep what friendships we had and keep in contact with you. We hold no ill will toward anyone but we are prepared to be persecuted for Jesus and what we hold dear. 


Mathew 10:32-39


"32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it."

We plead with you to find Jesus Christ. Don't find yourself being cast out like in Matthew 7:21-23
 "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." 

God Bless you all! 
To all Friends and Family. If you feel to tell someone our Family is no longer LDS or we left the church, please don't leave them with that information alone. The question of "Why?" will undoubtedly enter their mind. Please link them to this blog or tell them to search out "Daley Journey to truth" on BlogSpot. We all have our own story and they have the right to have their Why question answered even if they feel they can't talk with us.
 
 


12 comments:

  1. now I know why you left the big family group!! thank you for sharing. I am glad that you have found the Savior, and I wish you peace joy and happiness as you continue your journey- and we still miss you in the big family group but I will keep in touch with you here and on my blog!

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  2. Thank you for sharing your journey with us Andrea! :) <3 Kim

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  3. Thank you for sharing your experiences so honestly, I had no idea you were having such a struggle. I love you and your family Andrea, no matter what! You are wonderful people. I am happy that you have found Jesus Christ, but I have to be honest, I thought that you already had. Please don’t mistake this for persecution, but rather a friend that believes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be true, MOURNING the loss of YOUR faith in it. What kind of friend would I be if I just said, “oh well, hope you’re happy”? For days, I’ve pondered what you’ve written. How appropriate that drops of rain drip down your blog page, for I have just reached the 4th stage, depression, in the 5 stages of grief. I think I experienced the first stage, denial, when I read this late Saturday night. I could not believe what I was reading, in fact I read it again the next day, and then read previous posts to see if this was really from you. “New Creatures in Christ” was definitely written by a “new” creature, that voice was unrecognizable to me, the tone and language seemed so different. Then came the second stage, anger. I was hurt that you could say that MY version of The Savior Jesus Christ could in any way be “watered down” (in fact that one still hurts). Then the bargaining stage, I just kept thinking that if I could just get you in contact with a church historian like Susan Easton Black, that has studied the life of Joseph Smith extensively, then she would be able to answer your questions adequately. But now,depression or sadness sets in at the thought of you questioning all of the comfort and answers that you had testified of receiving when joining the LDS faith. You said you had felt peace, but have come to the conclusion that you can not trust that “burning in your bossom” and, I assume, the names and thoughts that came into your minds? Now I’m trying to reach the final stage, acceptance, so I can move on. Of course this is my own issue, and does not affect your choice. As children of a loving Heavenly Father, we are free to choose. I’m just sad to see someone I love, give up what I hold most dear. I am happy that you still have a deep love for the Savior. I hope you never lose that! I hope you find the lasting peace you are seeking. I am SO sorry that you had to endure abuse as a child and I pray that you will no longer suffer with anxiety and depression. I’m sure downsizing, having Brian home, and the healthy diet will help. I wish you the best. I love you and I will always consider you my friend. Please don’t give up on the LDS church entirely. I know you are tired of all the questions, take a rest, but keep asking, don’t give up! Just in case you missed it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u50__Z2P89Q&list=PLAYgY8SPtEWHHdoocgZfT5GoqxwP_u8u-&index=68&feature=plpp_video

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  4. Krista. Thank you for your honest and heart felt message. I wish I could have helped sooth the hurt you have gone through over this. Your post brought up a lot of points I need to address and will be addressing in future posts. Brian and I have talked about how we were going to talk to you and your family (As well as others in the Neighborhood) but my Sis made that harder for us to accomplish what we wanted to do. We didn't know who knew what, but word got around pretty fast as I started to get a lot of people unfriending me on facebook. People I wanted to reach and explain. They may not realize how much they meant to me in our 9 year journey with them.. but apparently I didn't mean that much to them. It's okay. The only person I am now in the least worried about is God and his opinion of me. (As it should be) Krista, Brian and I love you and Ron so much. Cerena misses Sarah so much. When Sarah and Spencer stopped off to say hi/bye just as I was loading up the Kids into the car I about started the water works but kept them back. Then pulling out of the driveway, I was stopped by President Edwards. His wife Julie baked up a whole platter of cookies to take with us. It took every ounce of strength I had to not brake down and sob. I simply smiled and hugged them through all the pain. I couldn't go back to that house after that. Brian and our other family finished cleaning and packing without me.

    Thank you for wanting to help, but in the 20 years we have had our questions sitting, and searching for the answers, the answers that complete the puzzle have been found. Susan Easton Black couldn't help because she would have to uncover history that the church would much rather have left alone and forgotten about. I don't know about Brian but I asked questions our first 6 years and was told on more then one occasion to not venture there and leave it alone. In one case I was told, "If you purse this course, you will be filled with the spirit of the Devil and fall away from the Restoration." Planted a fear seed within me for years! I do have to point out a very profound thing you posted above.

    "Please don’t mistake this for persecution, but rather a friend that believes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be true, MOURNING the loss of YOUR faith in it." "It", meaning the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It declares a warrant that LDS faith is in the CHURCH instead of in Jesus Christ. Scripture clearly states that the Church (all those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God) is the BRIDE of the Messiah, not the Messiah Himself..

    (Continued.....)

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    1. I think I understand what you are trying to say about our faith being in Christ not a church, I just meant to differentiate between our different beliefs in Christ. That may just be a language barrier, I believe it to be Christ's church, therefore, faith in Christ. But, I know you haven't lost faith in him. I do want you to know that my faith is and always has been first and foremost rooted in Christ. Sorry about the confusion in my meaning.

      Thank you so much for your kind words about my family. I can imagine the difficulty in trying to everyone and I think this was as good way as any to do it. You were able to explain the reasons openly and honestly, which can be difficult to do face to face, without being interrupted, etc. I'm still your friend and don't plan to unfriend you on facebook, that's just silly. I feel that ultimately we both what the same thing, to return to live with our Heavenly Father and our Savior Jesus Christ, even if we think the path is a bit different and I respect your freedom to choose. I'll still be praying for ya though, just like you'll probably be praying for all of us! ;) Love ya!

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  5. Ephesians 5:25-29
    25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

    26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

    27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

    28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

    29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:"

    This figure drawn from husbands and wives is applied directly without apology to Jesus Christ and His church. Just as a young man would not marry a dirty bride, so Jesus Christ will not marry a church that has stains or wrinkles or blemishes. His desire is for a glorious church, and He wants to love that church as a man loves his own bride.

    Paul's was using this not to describe just the church, but God's idea of marriage. One where husbands pattern themselves after Christ Himself (laying their lives down for their wives) and wives after the church (supporting their husband's leadership). It commands that husbands LOVE their wives unconditionally and that wives TRUST their husbands implicitely. Pretty much grabs us by our weakest relational tendancies ... as we should TRUST in Christ.

    But what is the "Church"? The Church is within us! It's not a building. God dwells in the hearts of those that love him.

    1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

    Isaiah 66:1-2
    1 "Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

    2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word."

    If heaven is his "throne" and the earth his "Foot Stool" how then could we ever build a structure big enough to give him so he may have "rest"? He can't possibly "dwell" in Churches or Temples.

    God Dwells in the hearts of those who love him and want to do his will, They first have to accept him (The True Jesus Christ. We have been warned about false Christs and Prophets in the last days so we need to make sure it's the TRUE Christ) they then become part of the Body of Christ [The Church]. I hope you understand even in the slightest, Krista. Love you so much!

    I will save my thoughts on the link to Elder Hollands talk for a later time as this is already running very long.

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  6. Love you guys. Sorry you had to leave the Church to find Christ. That's not required - they are not mutually exclusive. I believe in Jesus Christ. He is my Savior.

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    1. Chuck. That was my problem. I believed with all my heart and soul.. but I did not BELIEVE him! I knew of a Jesus Christ but it was a different Jesus. The LDS and AUB version redeemed my sins in the Garden of Gethsemane then was killed on the cross. (Which never made sense to me the way it was told) I knew OF Jesus. What I couldn't understand is why, if all he had to do was bleed from every pore and have our sins forgiven us did he have to then be put to death in such a brutal way if there wasn't any reason for it. When the Soldiers came to take him away after he "bleed from every pore" did they not questions why he was covered in blood? Why was Luke the only one to say anything about blood and even then it's stated "his sweat was as it were great drops of blood". What about Mark, Mathew and John? Did they not see Jesus covered in his own blood and not question and write about it?

      So which Jesus do you believe in? The Jesus who supposedly sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane to atone you of your Sins or the Jesus who atoned for your sins on the Cross where he stated "It is finished" and well as forgave a thief on the cross when he stated in Luke 23:42 "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in Paradise". Did Jesus lie? According the the LDS, the thief would then be sent to spirit prison and have to wait till someone here on the earth did all their "work" for them before he would be able to be admitted into paradise. Did he not say he would be with him today?

      1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

      My God cannot lie and has said that his word will be preserved. It has been preserved as he said it would.

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  7. Chuck Todd,
    The problem with the Mormon christ, whether it is the fundamentalist polygamous group you belong to or the mainstream LDS church, is that your christ is a different christ. There is only one Christ that saves and it is he that died on a wooden cross 2000 years ago for all those who believe in him. The Biblical Christ.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Your Jesus is your brother and Satan's brother.

    My Jesus was always God and created all things, including you and Satan.

    Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Your jesus was once a mere mortal like you. My Jesus is God and always has been.

    Your jesus can not save you because you must do works. This proves that your jesus can't cover everything to save you.
    The work my Jesus did on the cross was so perfect that there is NOTHING, not one sin that can not be covered by his shed blood. That is how perfect his shed blood is.

    You will think and I know this because I have been where you are, "well then if you don't have to do anything and still can be saved then you might as well go out and sin!" When you are truly born again, John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (physical birth) and of the Spirit (Spiritual birth), he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    Jesus changes you from the inside. You do good because you now realize that God can not dwell with any sin and perfection is impossible! It is hopeless without that grace! God wants us to know it isn't our works but his that we are saved! It takes any pride away that we might have of our own works and it brings us to him in humbleness and utter gratitude! And then we also have the Holy Spirit to indwell us and convict us to do good works!

    Chuck the reason we left the Allred group is because we were searching for truth. A Statement by Joseph Smith led us to the Mormon church. When we left (the Allred group) we believed that Joseph Smith was a prophet. He said that the Bible couldn't be trusted. We believed him. We believed that the Book of Mormon was translated by the hand of God. When we discovered all of the problems with the Book of Mormon, the close to 5000 changes (and yes Chuck your Book of Mormon has many changes) The plagiarizing from other books and the Bible and the fact that Deuteronomy 13:1-3 tells us how to test a false prophet and Joseph Smith failed the test!
    (not to mention all of the other problems Archaeological, Dating Inconsistencies, DNA problems and the list goes on!)
    I know you can say so many things about the Nicene creed and so many things to prove that the Bible can not be trusted but we have a promise from Jesus himself and I can't think of anyone I would trust more than him with my salvation! Jesus said in Mathew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Joseph Smith said you couldn't trust what Jesus said you could trust! Who are you going to trust with your salvation?

    After spending months at trying to prove Mormonism is of God, I now have given my life to Christ. It is him I put my trust and him only I worship! (and I can truly say it is an amazing relationship!)

    I pray you will look outside the box and make sure it is the saving Jesus that you put your trust in. All other christs are just a fable.

    1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    We did not take leaving the LDS church lightly we did a very in depth study of the foundation of Mormonism and Joseph Smith trying to prove it true. Joseph Smith is the foundation of Mormonism. Not God.

    The greatest barrier to truth is believing you already have it.

    God Bless!

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  8. You should read Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman - it is an excellent work that addresses some of the issues you bring up.
    I would love to sit down and discuss these things in person some time....just for old times sake :)

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  9. Chuck we would love to visit with you. :) maybe when Sam is in town we can get together.

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  10. I don't want to get into a big argument or anything. I just love discussing gospel topics, and all of you seem really excited and interested in that subject too. It would be a lot of fun to get together, I think.
    I believe we are all still friends on Facebook. Contact me through FB.....I check it a lot more often than I check this blog.

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