Wednesday, August 11, 2010

Missionary Fireside


Brian is asking more questions and I try to answer them from what I've been learning the last 2 weeks. What I don't know, I call My SIL Becky and ask her.

Becky W. invited us to a Missionary Fireside the next Sunday and I agreed to go. Brian was hesitant. Elder Iring was going to be the speaker.

That Sunday we went to Church at "The Building". Brian was on board enough to refuse the Sacrament that day. Chuck Todd, one of the Elders passing the Sacrament went out of his way and made his way from the front of the room all the way to the back, were we were, to offer us the Sacrament. When we refused, he knew we were leaving.

I remember a Woman getting up to speak. Her subject was about how Joseph Smith was reincarnated and came back as some other Prophet.. Brian and I had to leave early to make it to the Missionary fireside and didn't get to hear her conclusion OR the Prophet get up and correct her when she was through. When we left, I was more convinced that the group was not true!

We made our way to Becky W's Ward house near MillCreak Canyon in Salt Lake. We stopped at Becky's house and carpooled to the Stake Center. We went into the Chapel and sat down. As we waited Becky and I spoke some. About the time it was getting ready to start a white backdrop started to come down from the Ceiling. It was going to be a Film.

Brian was not amused!! We were expecting to get to "See" and "Hear" a Member of the "12 Apostles" speak to us in the same room. Why not? We were always privileged to have our "Prophet" at church with us every week! I was a little disappointed myself but that quickly passed. Brian on the other hand was not going to have any part of it. He looked around at the construction of the building. The beams, the ceiling walls and thought about how it was constructed during the film. He looked over at me and noticed I was sobbing. The message was wonderful, spiritual, peaceful! Enough to bring tears to my eyes (These days it didn't take much)

Brian started to kick himself. Telling himself what a Jerk he was being for not even trying! He then started to pray in his mind, asking if Owen A Allred held the Keys.....Nothing. No answer like always. He then asked WHO? Gordon Hinckly's name popped into his head. He didn't say anything to me.

The Fireside ended and we went back to Becky's house. Her husband and her brought out some refreshments. (Key lime Pie and a drink) and we sat down. Brian didn't. He started to pace... then asked, Who is Gordon Hinckley? When they told him he started to pace even more!! I don't remember exactly what he said but it was almost like "I don't want to be a Mormon! But the answer I received makes it hard for me to deny where I need to go now!"

2 Weeks!! It had only been 2 weeks from when I received my Testimony!! It was the Longest 2 Weeks of my entire life!!

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Update 11-9-12
Yet another example of Satan's deception. Names planted into someones mind.  Along with this he also received a "Burning" he said ".....from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet it was a woosh of warmth" Where is the Knowledge that should have accompanied that?

The Hug!


The mood in the house is cold and dark. We don't talk. We don't even meet eye to eye anymore. I'm again in my room reading and Brian is playing his RPG. (Role Playing game online)We are expecting the nurse. The nurse that is coming to give Brian a physical and take his blood for the Life insurance. The doorbell rings and I hear him get up and answer the door, so I stay in my room with the door closed. 10, or so minutes later the doorbell rings again. I figure he's busy with the nurse and go answer the door. It's the Nurse!! So, who's in the computer room with Brian?? I look around the nurse and see Becky's Suburban parked in the driveway....

I show the Nurse in to the Kitchen, walk down the hall and gently knock on the closed Computer room door. Brian opens it and I see his sister, Becky. I meet Becky's eyes with a questioning look. Brian heads to the Kitchen and I talk quietly with Becky.

Becky and Brian are Best siblings. Becky could not go another day with Brian hating her so she came over to try and make amends.

Brian gets through with his Physical and we sign the papers. Brian then goes back into the computer room with his sister and I went back to my room, and sat on the floor by the door.

What's going on in there!! 20 Minutes passed. I tried to read and tried to think of other things but I wanted so much to know what was going on in that room! Something told me that it was Okay to go in. When I opened the door I saw Brian Hugging his sister, Becky Crying and Brian...He looked different.

He told me later that He had a hard heart. He was Angry! Angry at Becky, Me.. and everyone who was tearing his life apart! He wasn't listening to anything Becky tried to tell him in the room. He just sat there.. Angry! I'm not sure what lead up to the hug when I walked in but Brian said he didn't want to be angry at his sister anymore and let go of some of it to hug her. When he hugged her he felt a warmth and a peace. He was also confused how he could feel such peace, from his sister who was on the road to "Apostasy".

Sunday, August 1, 2010

Visiting the Church Archives.


Time lines! This was really weighing on my mind! The group was founded by a man named Lorin Woolley. He was the Man that told of a Story about John Taylor being told by the Lord and Joseph Smith to keep Plural Marriage alive. If it weren't for him, and his "Stories" there would be no Group.

Lorin tells of an 8 hour meeting where John Taylor reportedly told some men about his experience with the Lord. If that never happened then it was all a lie. I had to find out for myself. The only place I could go were the Church archives and read people journals on Microfiche. Find out where they were during this meeting. In every single Journal I read.. none of the men were at the meeting on that day... Many of them were counties away. In one journal Entry I read something about Lorin Woolley and they even gave him a Nick Name. "Noisy" Lorin Woolley seemed to have had an ego problem even in his early years. The Centerville Fifth Ward Elders Quorum minutes, for instance, reveal that Lonn was the first to speak at quorum meetings and frequently dominated discussion. His self-evaluation as "Noisy," a nickname he picked up in his childhood, confirms this. In other journal entries he was known as a Lier. At Lorins Church trial in 1924, which resulted in his excommunication on a charge of "pernicious falsehood" where he claimed Heber C Kimball and taken 5 other wives and sealed them to already married men after the Manifesto.

I'll stop right there. Way to much information, it's making my head hurt as well. Needless to say, I kept running into contradicting stories.

One of the biggest discoveries for myself, was about Joseph and Hyrum Smith. The "Group" has a story that Joseph and Hyrums bodies were exhumed, placed in new caskets and brought to the Salt Lake Valley then buried on Temple square by Brigham Young in the fall of 1848. Lorin Woolley also has an account where Joseph appeared to him and shook his hand as well as Charles Wilcken. Joseph also appeared to John Tayor at the 8 hour meeting to lay his hands on his head to set him apart.

What I found in the Archives left me in tears.. It was THEN that I knew it was all a lie! This information can now be found online but I also have a hard copy printed out with pictures. This is what I found:


http://www.shields-research.org/Books/Polygamy_Story/LDS-Funde_Polygamy_Story-c10.htm
That Joseph and Hyrum were not resurrected in 1886 may be further borne out by the fact that the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints exhumed their bodies in 1928. Samuel O. Bennion, then President of the East Central States Mission, with three others, upon hearing about the exhumation, drove from In dependence to Nauvoo, and they arrived just after the bodies had been disinterred. He wrote in a report to President Heber J. Grant:

Fred(rick) M. (Smith, President of the Reorganized Church) took me upstairs where they were photographing and taking measurements of the skulls of Joseph and Hyrum. I could hardly keep the tears back when I saw these men handling these skulls like they were just common ordinary skulls and I said to Fred M. Why don't you let the bodies of these men rest where they were, it seemed a terrible thing to disturb their graves. He answered me, by saying that he wanted to find out if the graves of these men were down by what was called the Spring House and rather evasively avoided my question, but told me that he did not know exactly where they were buried and he wanted to find out. It is my impression brethren that he had heard reports that Brigham Young took the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum to Utah and that he wanted to prove it untrue. He did not mention that but in an indirect way he did. I said to him "Didn't your father tell you where these bodies were laid?" And he answered "Yes." I told him his father had told me where they were and that I was convinced that they were there close to the foot of Emma Smith's grave.

The lowe-r jaw of Hyrum Smith is just as near like the pictures of Hyrum as it could be. His jaw was very large and was quite square especially at the chin compared with Joseph's. Joseph's jaw was more pointed, but Hyrum's was a little more square all around than Joseph's. These men must have been big because their lower jaws were extra large and strong.

The bullet that killed Hyrum entered into his face near the lower part of his nose on the right side and broke his upper jaw just above the teeth. The break shows very distinctly where the bullet entered the face, because the bone was broken and the bullet went in an upward direction right under the eye and came out on the other side of his head, just a little above his ear and toward the front.

If Joseph's and Hyrum's bodies were exhumed in 1928, we may logically assume that they had not previously been resurrected. We may confidently conclude with Brigham Young: "When Joseph is resurrected, you may find the linen that enshrouded his body, but you will not find his body in the grave.".


Here are some links for those that want to learn more about the "8 hour meeting", Fundamentalism, And just General Information about the subject.

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Update  11-9-12
Why ohh why didn't I choose to dig a little bit deeper? I now understand a little more why the Archive worker was nervous about the materials I was asking to view. Why didn't I look deeper?

Along the road.....

As I was reading the scriptures I was really focusing on D&C 132. I had a testimony of Plural Marriage so.. if I know it was true how could I not live it? I was reading it word for word, verse by verse and studying each word. I was praying for clarity as I read it. I started to understand that this was given to Joseph Smith, directly! These were his Promises. HIS Tests. HIS blessings! Again! I learned that the "Group" was taking the scriptures out of context. Thankfully, Brian started seeing it too.

There were a lot of people "Studying" at this time and leaving the "Group". A lot of other people were asking questions and none were getting answers. Brian was on board...kind of.. and went to one of these classes with me. He had his own questions he needed answered as well. At these classes.. One thing Brian and I both noticed how they never actually answer the question. They would tell a story about so-n-so and his experience and literally dance all around the question, never answering it.

I was struggling with blacks and the priesthood. How Children were allowed to partake of the sacrament before they were baptized. The changing of the Garments over time and many other teachings that didn't match the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The group claimed to have the same pattern of the Garments that Adam and Eve wore. My Sister in Law has someone in her new ward that knew someone that had Hyrums Garments. The ones he wore when he was shot and was going to be at her ward one evening. I had to see with my own eyes. They were Red long underwear. NOTHING like what the group had. NOTHING!

Over time and through reading the scriptures, mainly the book of Mormon, all of my questions were answered and I realized that the others didn't matter! We joke about worrying about which side of the gate the hinge is on. The gate still opens up. Does it matter which side the hinge is on?

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Update 11-9-12

After Joining the LDS church I still struggled with the fact that a Loving God would deny his own "Children" his priesthood because of a color. Was he really that racist?  What of the 2nd Article of Faith? We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression... Why are they then being punished for something their ancestors did?

I still struggled with the garment changes, Temple ordinance changes, Why the LDS didn't teach earlier doctrine if the "prophet" that spoke it said it was a fundamental principle and one couldn't make it to the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom without it? Then one day, it was wiped out, removed, and didn't matter.  And ohhhh, don't bring up Adam God, Polygamy, Blood Atonement, Joseph Smiths many wives..let alone his 14 year old Brides and the women that were married already. Brigham Young and his many wives... and why many of the Prophets still lived Polygamy even after the Manifesto. (Yes.. these questions, and more are what I asked my Bishops and Stake presidents till I was finally threatened by one of my Stake presidents that "If you purse this course, you will be filled with the spirit of the Devil and fall away from the Restoration.")

I had way to many questions without answers but I decided to instead bury my head in the sand after the last threat from my Stake President, and set it all on the shelf.


Any religion that can't handle some straight forward questions and be able to give some straight forward answers to those questions must have a very unstable foundation or have a lot to hide.

D&C Chapter 6


I raised my hopes way to high! High enough to have them crash down, leaving me questioning. Did I really feel what I did? Did I really hear what I did? Was it all a figment of my imagination? Was it what I really wanted? I'm comfortable where I am. Why do I want to cause myself all this pain and worry? It's easier to stay where we are with Brian. No more fighting or Cold greetings.

I voiced these words to my friend, Becky W. She hugged me and gave me some scriptures of encouragement. I don't remember what they were but I do know they helped me while I was struggling.

I went home and said a prayer for some comfort and strength. I then felt to let my scriptures fall open. After the pages fell open my eyes fell upon this scripture.

Doctrine and Covenants Chapter 6 Verses 21-23
21 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I am the same that came unto mine own, and mine own received me not. I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.
22 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things.
23 Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?

Again, an answer from my Heavenly Father to bring peace and strength back into my heart! Received the strength to hang on longer and be patient with Brian.